Stani@stani·11d

I had a interesting discussion with a friend (another bluechip defi founder) on democracy. What he argued is that democracy is breaking society as a whole now, especially breaking unity of people within a nation. I can't really think anything better than democracy at this point as a way to govern a nation in any better way.

  • Democracy has many faces nowadays around the world. Most of them aren't even fully democratic. Is there a country you believe functions in the most appropriate way, which could serve as an example for how democracies should operate?

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    • Dean@deanjackson·10d

      History is a pendulum and swings between ideas throughout ages. More often it balances on the greatest good for the most people…or else it reverts. See the French Revolution, American recolution, any revolution…

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      • When unity of the people breaks in an undemocratic nation it is a much larger mess

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        • Democracy is on the right track, as everyone should have a say (obviously), but once the people vote a person into power there's no way to hold that person to account for their actions, so they can just do whatever the fuck they want with no repercussions. So, there needs to be a system in to hold these people accountable for their actions. Otherwise, the government will always just be a centralised governing body.

          I feel confident that in the future we'll have some kind of decentralised protocol in place that will allow people to effortlessly vote on any policy (via a dapp on a device) and to vote out people in power (imagine this protocol pays out the politicians salary, but if people are dissatisfied they can vote to end his term, which would stop the issuance of their salary), but probably not in our lifetime.

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          • Winston Churchill once said: 'Democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others'

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            • Haku@xohaku·11d

              I understand the point that democracy might be failing, but I dont believe its the only cause of social fragmentation. Rather, the problem seems to be that any political system—be it democracy, meritocracy, or any other—ends up tainted by the power and interests of a few. Democracy, in its current form, is not the solution, but I dont think simply replacing it with something like meritocracy, which can also be corruptible, is the answer either

              What we really need is a profound change, something new that is not tainted by the old forms of power and the interests that control societies. The world has changed, and traditional systems no longer meet the real needs of people. So, rather than focusing on how to improve what already exists, perhaps we should be imagining how to build something completely different, something that genuinely serves everyone and not just the usual few

              Today’s politics is more obsessed with maintaining power than with solving the problems that really matter. Old solutions no longer work in a world that is changing so rapidly. Its time to break away from those outdated models and create something that truly works for everyone, not just for the usual few. The future is not built with the rules of the past

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              • kissop@kissop·11d

                🤣

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                • AI infused Blockchain socialism as a next step. Distribute the means of production among the people through tokenization. Replace the state with frontier AI and reduce its size, cost and impact. Instead use a national blockchain based system similar to staking with delegation for decision making. Utilise AI for arbitration and decision making based on human voted policy choices.

                  We’re not far away from having the tech to do this.

                  Socialism fails when the state becomes greedy. Remove the state. We don’t need it when we can directly give a say in government to each person via tokenization. Elections would then essentially be perpetually live as short unlocking periods for delegation of “votes” could be inplementated.

                  Further, a credit based UBI system could be integrated with rewards based on how active you are in running the country through onchain voting.

                  The more you interact with policy the more you gain from the system.

                  Simple - doesn’t stifle competition or innovation as the markets can then be left to do their own thing while the country itself is truly managed by the people.

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                  • Elias@eliasvm·11d

                    Suppose you could find the answer to your question:

                    "what provides the most stability to the biggest portion of earth"

                    Then what? Would you impose that system over people all over the world? Or maybe you can infiltrate and take control of their education system and make them believe what's the ultimate truth according to your pov.

                    Would this be ultimately acceptable? What about sovereignty? ...and how to treat the thin line between respecting sovereignty and defending basic human rights/greater good?

                    It gets far weirder when looking at things beyond our own scopes

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                    • yuello@yuello·11d

                      Uhmmmm!😅

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                      • Is it?

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                        • Cross@loophole·11d

                          Uhmmmm!

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                          • Nation States and governments are complex systems that above all else seek stability, and secondary to that seek to advance their own interests. Most large systems work that way.

                            You can explain basically any behaviour by nation states and governments through that lens.

                            It's why the US government is not all in on crypto - they already issue the USD which is central to its stability internally, and primacy externally. Alternative currency systems are ideally boxed in or captured by USD.

                            Not every entity inside of that system shares the same goals which is why you have internal agitators, everyday individuals with differing views, political parties with different affiliations, and of course a lot of external entities interfering to advance their own interests.

                            You could also argue that capitalism is an extranational force these days, that sits above any and all democracies and states and has more influence on them than most people realise.

                            I think the question generally is, what provides the most stability to the biggest portion of the earth? What system or overlay could do better?

                            Modern economies and the USD is probably the biggest contributor to this at the moment - no one wants to kick off a hot war since there's too much to lose from everyone involved. At the same time, that will always have opposition from other superpowers trying to exert influence against US influence.

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                            • Democracy is cracking because of heterogeneity. America fought a civil war to prevent brown men from voting. At that moment American politics became heterogeneous. Now we have different religions, races, cultures, belief systems & politics has to play to all of them.

                              Furthermore our education system, in the US, has done an extremely poor job of indoctrinating the youth, the purpose of its design. Arguably the internet is the biggest culprit here, but it doesn’t change facts.

                              Nationalism, which is what I detect from most European people, requires a shared national identity. I’ve met Frenchmen who weren’t French, but they were Frenchmen. American, being that it doesn’t come with a language or as long a history as European nations, is an identity that is easy to dissociate from. We are all immigrants, some of us being involuntary immigrants (a term they teach in school instead of saying slaves). We involuntary immigrants are the only “Americans”, except for Native Americans, who can’t point to some other place on the map.

                              I know you’re talking about Democracy broadly but the US is a great example of a national identity crisis. That’s what’s going on in the west. The governments have been purchased by our global capitalist. With ballooning debts & an addiction to money printing, our nation’s leaders will have to choose to print for enterprise or the people because the economy isn’t working for all citizens.

                              Being apart of a democracy requires a shared identity, which means culture & economic opportunity. The latter has been stolen by corporatism and the former is being challenged by immigration, our leaders’ solution to old age dependence ratios.

                              Sorry for my Ted talk. I’ve had a bit of wine.

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                              • DeFinn@definn·11d

                                When you don't have a democracy, you need a system to define who has the decision power. In a capitalist society, money = power so anything other than a democracy is money oriented.

                                So yeah, democracy is the best system we can have.

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                                • Elias@eliasvm·11d

                                  Yeah you just have to invite them over to Venezuela: they’ll immediately see the beauty democracy and freedom inherently has.

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                                  • Stani@stani·11d

                                    Except maybe some kind of meritocratic system, but its also subject to some issues i.e. how to define who has the right meritocratic credentials to get the job done.

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